As all ACKMA members would be aware, Andy Spate recently retired from the New South Wales National Parks and Wildlife Service (NSW NPWS) after twenty-odd years as its karst specialist (despite often-changing job titles and descriptions over those years). A very successful "farewell" function was held at Caves House, Yarrangobilly, on Saturday 23 February, with over 100 colleagues and friends present, including a goodly (Godly? - perhaps not ...) number of ACKMA members.

In addition to his work with NPWS, Andy has been involved in many consultancies, court cases and research projects across Australia - often in conjunction with ACKMA or the Australian Speleological Federation.

I arrived at Yarrangobilly early in the afternoon, to promptly follow Andy on his last "official" tour of the Tourist Caves, which started in North Glory cave, and then proceeded through Glory Hole cave, and finally through Jersey Cave. Andy was, not surprisingly in rare form, to the amusement, and also to the education of those many hanging off his every word. It was with some relish that Andy signed out in the tour record book at the exit Glory Hole as leading his last "official" tour.

After a very expansive barbeque and accompanying feast, and considerable libation, those present were regaled by a number of speeches by several of Andy's Parks Service colleagues, and several gifts, to quite some hilarity! However, the best was yet to come, when Andy took the floor in response and gave us a rousing recital of his time and times in the Parks Service's employ, including photos, and performing famous feats such as inserting his whole body through a coat hanger (albeit a larger one than usual ...)! I did record his speech on tape, but as it turned out the quality of the recording has made it difficult to transcribe, and frankly, some of what he had to say is undoubtedly best left off the tape in any case!

I did, however, record an interview with Andy, as well as obtaining the comments of Ernst Holland, both of which are transcribed below. Andy has been, and will remain, one of the doyen of caves in Australasia. A large part of the advances in cave and karst management, and of ACKMA in particular, can be directly attributed to his efforts over the years. Happily, he has only retired from the NSW NPWS, and will be still around the caving world - and hopes to do a little consulting and similar here and there! He will be around, and contributing as ever, for many years to come. More power to his bow (or is that to his coat hanger)!!!

Interview with Andy Spate

In what year did you become a karst manager with the NSW NPWS?

It was 1981, but actually, I've never been a karst manager with the NSW NPWS. My role has been to provide advice to managers - primarily in the southern part of the State. Prior to 1981 I had been involved in karst research or recreational speleology, since about 1958.

What did you consider to be your first challenges, both professionally and personally?

My first challenges (after encountering a new bureaucracy!!) were to write plans of management for the Cooleman Plains and Yarrangobilly karst areas. The Cooleman plan did eventuate within three or four years - somewhat beyond the six months I originally estimated - while the Yarrangobilly lay on various NPWS Director's desks for 10-15 years waiting to be at least read. There always seemed something else to do including such entertaining things as removing and rehabilitating pine plantations or sitting on the Lord Howe Island Board of Management.

Did you see any immediate changes from your initial efforts?

Yes, we stopped septic tank waste being dumped into the catchment of the Yarrangobilly karst, and we saw much greater involvement with cavers and scientists in terms of use, planning and management of caves in New South Wales on Parks lands.

What was your impression of the state of cave and karst management when you initially took on your role, and what did you seek to change?

The most important thing we have done in Australia in twenty years since I took this job one was to lift the standards of cave guiding through the roof. This has occurred mainly through ACKMA interactions, but in other ways as well and I hope my efforts have been useful. I must here pay tribute to Kent Henderson and his Journal, which has been the unifying feature for these things.

There has also been a very considerable increase in the way we view cave infrastructure and redevelopment with very many fine innovations in materials and methods being experimented with and adopted.

Generally we have all got the term 'karst' into the thinking of agencies and the community and there is more understanding of its values and complexities than two decades ago. Whilst we all like this understanding greatly enhanced things are much better than we might have expected earlier.

In terms of Yarrangobilly, which has been a special interest to you, what necessary improvements did you see were needed there, both in terms of capital investments and management improvements?

The most important here is that we are now working towards a decent sewerage system so we can avoid the potential for gross pollution of Rules Creek and the cave system. But there have been advances in cave lighting and much else. There are also many other karstic places where I have had interests and input including at Wellington, Jenolan, Wombeyan, Bungonia, Deua National Park and so on.

What I would most like to see at Yarrangobilly is the re-opening of Yarrangobilly Caves House - preferably for educational or similar purposes.

In terms of staff training at karst areas in New South Wales, what input have you had, and what do you consider the results have been?

We need heaps and heaps more training activities. And I know that various people have valid concerns concerning guide and ranger training across Australia. Some of that has been addressed through the various karst training programs that I, and other people, have run. The Cave Guide workshops, or so called Gabfests, have been very useful. We need, in my view, to avoid dreadful potted accreditation schemes and such like which seem often ill-conceived and sometimes produced by people with little experience in the peculiarities of caves and karst. I believe the standards of cave guiding in Australia and New Zealand have risen enormously over the years, and is now very good indeed in many areas.

However, there are still a lot of people who don't have opportunities for cave-oriented professional development, but they muddle along very well. ACKMA, through its various conferences and suchlike, has very much been a formative and guiding influence. I hope to contribute in the next few years to the lifting of our presentations even higher..

You have run many karst seminars over the years in various cave locations, what do you think the effect of those have been on the standards of cave interpretation, and the understanding of the resource?

What it has done is that it has got people to think about questions and issues. I recently went back to Chillagoe and then to Capricorn Caverns and did second courses there after about five or six years. It was not a totally different group of people and it was interesting that people were asking many questions that demonstrated that they understood things, but wanted to understand more, and now had the basis on which to ask the right questions. I see similar attitudes at Yarrangobilly and Naracoorte and in other places. These people realise that they have to take the steps beyond inventing an explanation. Generating that sort of enthusiasm and involvement has been great.

What do you consider to have been your main achievements as a karst manager/advisor in your time with the NSW NPWS?

The Cooleman Plains Karst Area Management Plan, I think. Others have said it has been a model for karst area management. However, any plans intentions are only as good as their final implementation. It was the first whole plan for a sizable karst area in Australia, it finally appearing in 1985. The NSW Cave Invertebrate Survey was another milestone. Another achievement, I think, has been my input into the foundation and development of ACKMA, which I believe has had a huge influence in all sorts of improvements in Australasian cave and karst management.

What have been the three or four actual events that have given you the most satisfaction in your time as a karst manager?

The establishment of ACKMA at Yarrangobilly in May 1987, supporting Neil Kell in gaining his Churchill Fellowship to study caves lighting overseas, the series of appointments as fine cave managers at Yarrangobilly, and the Kubla Khan Cave (Tasmania) planning exercise. There have been some other interesting projects at Cape Range, Christmas Island, the Nullabor and so on ...

If you had your time over again, it there anything you would have done differently?

I would liked to a much better recorder of information. I would have spent much more time consulting people across New South Wales.

However, given political and bureaucratic imperatives and the need to address the often conflicting aspirations of users and the needs for some environmental conservation, it is quite a difficult business.

Interview with Ernst Holland

You have been associated with Andy Spate for very many years. What do consider to have been his strengths over that time?

His scientific knowledge has, to me, always been quite awe inspiring, but also his ready willingness to share it. He is also great in knowing how to apply his knowledge, make things work, and bring out results from it. He has a volatile nature, but at the same time his is such a friendly person, and he is great at getting on with people. He is also an excellent organiser, and he is excellent in pointing out where things would or wouldn't work. His other great strength is his ability is adapt his great karst knowledge to other areas such as botany, biology, etc.

What do you think he has achieved at Yarrangobilly specifically?

His main achievements have been his ability to put pressure on the bureaucracy to inject capital funds into the place, getting the right people to manage the caves, his training of them, and their loyalty to him in them adapting that training to their everyday work.

As a former Jenolan Caves Karst Resources Manager, what his association with you, and what influence did he have?

He first came to Jenolan in the early 1970s, and cave interpretation was then pretty ordinary. He made people aware, me in particular, what practices that should be in place. He has been an adviser to me and to Jenolan Caves ever since. I remember that his first main advice was in timber cutting in the reserve, then he later joined the scientific committee, and then on the SEM Committee, which he now chairs.

What would you describe as his legacy?

The awareness he has aroused amongst cave & karst managers that they have fragile and complex environments to manage.

EDITOR'S NOTE: Despite Andy's "retirement", readers can be assured that ANDYSEZ will continue to feature in this journal for many years to come!